Louise Specht:  How and why did you become involved in ending torture?

NRCAT Executive Director, Rev. Richard Killmer

Rich Killmer:  Quick history. I graduated Princeton in 1968, during the Vietnam War and was ordained to be Director of Minnesota Clergy & Laymen Concerned about Vietnam. I went to the national office, then to the Council of Churches, then the national headquarters of the Presbytery, then the Churches Center for Theology & Public Policy. All of that was in peacemaking and justice kinds of work. That’s how I spent my life, how I spent my 44 years of ministry. It’s not surprising I would be concerned about the issue of torture.

What happened in 2005 is that George Hunsinger raised some nice money for a conference he wanted to do on torture and hired the CCTPP to help staff the conference and put together the beginnings of what would be a national organization. I did a lot of that work, so we came into the Princeton meeting with an idea for the National Religious Campaign against Torture. The CCTPP continued to staff NRCAT from January 16, 2006 up until we had raised enough money  to incorporate and hire staff in early 2007. I did most of the work to raise money from foundations. I applied for the job of director and was hired in May, and the rest is our common history.

Louise: Why have you chosen this path for your ministry?

Rich:  I’m not sure I fully understand all of it. Vietnam was seminal in so many ways,. Trying to end that war and the task of peacemaking was hugely important. In 1980, after the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church created a special peacemaking project called the Whole Church, calling us to the task of peacemaking and hired me as Director. It’s one of the things that felt like some good luck that I’ve been around for the beginnings of some important projects. That was true for NRCAT and for the Presbyterian Peacemaking Program.

Louise:  What was your involvement in founding NRCAT?

Rich:  It was important to create the idea of a NRCAT so when people left the meeting, folks knew they were signing up for something. We spent a lot of time recruiting denomination and faith groups to be a part of this organization. I did that with the hat of working for the CCTPP. Jeannie Herrick-Stare at the Friends Committee on National Legislation worked closely with me as we did that work. It wasn’t created out of whole cloth, it was created out of asking the Presbytery to pay, asking the UCC to participate.

Louise: Why did you decide that NRCAT should be an organization of organizations, rather than an organization of individuals?

Rich:  If you want the religious community to take this seriously, you need the national structures of the faith groups to get the individual members involved. Even six years out, it’s an important way to do the work.

Louise: Tell me about the origins of the “Torture is a Moral Issue” statement? How did you arrive at that as the main message of NRCAT?

Rich:  At the Princeton conference, we had a draft of the statement because there had been, even at that early time, debate in the country, “Why should people of faith care about this issue?”  People of faith have special insights and energy to bring. It’s the kind of thing religious people talk about all the time, “How do you treat your neighbors?” “Torture is a moral issue” has been helpful, maybe more than we knew.

Louise:  Who came up with it?

Rich: It probably was George. I’m not positive about that, but we couldn’t be too wrong, and he embraced it.

Louise:  What was your reaction to Abu Ghraib?

Rich:  That was 2004, and my reaction was, “How can my country do this?” even though I’ve been used to the fact that my country does harmful things. I learned that in Vietnam, and in civil rights policies and laws in the 60’s, and I committed myself to trying to end those injustices. In 2004, I thought, “This was not ‘Animal House on the night shift’, it was too intelligent, too well thought through, this was people who wanted to do harm to people, especially Muslims. That’s why they did things the way they did”.

Louise:  What are NRCAT’s plans for the upcoming year?

Rich:  You know some of them. We have four work areas in terms of U.S.- sponsored torture. We’ll be working with Amnesty International doing a petition to the White House to issue an apology for Maher Arar for treatment by the US and Canada. June is Torture Awareness Month, and we’re “Confronting the culture of torture 2012—It’s Not Over Yet”. Built into that is a sense that we are building a torture-free future for the U.S., including codification of the Executive Orders, creating a Commission of Inquiry, repealing indefinite detention. So that’s the U.S.-sponsored part.

In terms of ending prolonged solitary confinement, there’s a lot of good energy around that. There’s a new film, Torture in Your Backyard, that will be released later this month and a petition to be signed by people of faith. We hope to get 10,000 signatures by end of 2012. We will be promoting the goal of 5,000 showings of that film mostly in congregations and in some cases civic groups or congressional offices.

We’ve got some excellent state work in California and Oregon, Texas, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and we’ve probably going to add New Jersey. In some of these states, bills have been introduced, there’s real legislation that we’re supporting. In fact, Heather (Rice) is down in Richmond lobbying for a study bill that’s been introduced.

That’s how the situation in Maine started. A bill passed the legislature asking for a study and recommendations from the Department of Corrections, and they came up with a terrific report. The new Commissioner reduced the solitary population by 70%. We’ve got a success on that issue as we go forward.

We kind of joked that Virginia is the new Maine, because something like that may happen in Virgina. In Texas and Colorado, where there’s now an administrative process to reduce the number of people in solitary confinement.

In California, BARCAT has been playing a major role to add visibility to this issue. There was an  Assembly hearing, and you folks recruited Will McGarvey, a Presbyterian minister, to testify as a religious leader, and there was a rally outside while the hearing was being held. More than 600 people of faith signed the NRCAT Statement, and  it was delivered to the Governor.

There’s a commitment by a number of leaders, including BARCAT, to create an anti-prolonged solitary confinement organization that would severely limit the use of solitary in California. We are grateful to BARCAT for providing leadership, as well as the Los Angeles Area Religious Campaign Against Torture. A lot of work across the country is being led by NRCAT. I’m really hopeful that there may be a number of policy successes in a number of states.

We also do work on U.S. policies that affect the torture practices of other countries. That’s one of the reasons we’re working on the OPCAT. We met with the White House staff in December, and we plan to meet again in December of this year. There’s tasks they need to do with the Department of State and other agencies to get them to urge the President to sign the OPCAT.

Louise:  What if Romney is elected in 2012?

If Romney is elected, We’ll definitely go to the White House in December. This could be particularly productive because President Obama might be convinced to sign it on his way out.

Louise:  How have congregations been helpful in supporting the campaign against torture?

Rich:  Lots of ways. They’ve included the concern within worship, we’ve written prayers that have been used by congregations. They do education on a variety of issues. We’ve produced four videos, and we’ve put together discussion guides that have been used by lots of congregations. For our first one, “Ending U.S.-Sponsored Torture Forever”, we did seven faith-specific discussion guides so people could talk about it in the voice of their own faith tradition. We do a lot in grassroots lobbying. We’ve produced lots of very specific requests for people of faith to bring to their members of Congress and the President. Congregations have been key to giving folks the opportunity to send model emails through our web site, and we always get more than 1,000 people, often in all 50 states, who respond. That’s turned out to be a very important thing, and congregations play a critical role. Congregations have played a major role in asking folks to sign particular statements. BARCAT has been wonderful at that, taking our statements to shopping centers and other public places. Congregations pray about it, engage in education, do grassroots lobbying, and have people sign our statements.

We’re also working in anti-Muslim bigotry, NRCAT is a member of Shoulder to Shoulder, Standing with American Muslims Upholding American Values. They have held a number of national press conferences and are moving into working with local groups across the country that are involved in ending anti-Muslim bigotry.

Louise:  Are we making progress?

Mixed bag. In our history, we’ve had four policy successes. Most famous are the executive orders that Obama signed in January, 2009. We had a major yearlong effort to encourage an executive order and worked with the President-elect. We had statements signed by lots of religious leaders and did all the things that make it very visible. So, when the executive orders happened, a lot of organizations saw us play a major role that put NRCAT on the map. There’s nothing like a policy success to do that.

Second policy success was in Maine, where we were highly involved in working on legislation there, and a bill did pass requiring the Department of Corrections to come up with recommendations to reduce solitary. That’s led to a 70% reduction in the solitary population, which was a huge success. We’re optimistic that our solitary confinement work will bring more success in Colorado, Virginia and maybe even California.

Another one recently was the omnibus budget that passed with a rider directing the Department of State to use money that they already had for grants to nations that are trying to end their torture practices. It was fairly small but a real practical result.

We’ve had an awfully big success in that a major religious voice has been inserted into this issue. Clearly the religious voice is involved, and clearly, NRCAT had a major role in helping that happen.

Louise:  What are the biggest obstacles to ending torture?

The first major obstacle, of course, was the Bush administration that actually ordered the torture. Second obstacle was though the Obama administration has done excellent things, they’ve not been aggressive to investigate the torture that we know happened in the Bush administration. We’ve had other disappointments, including President Obama signing the NDAA allowing indefinite detention, including of Americans. We’re also disappointed that there are people, including people of faith, who believe that sometimes torture is needed. It’s like saying sometimes rape is needed. It’s just wrong. It’s not going to go away easily.

Louise:  You’ve talked about this issue in connection with your grandchildren before in a way that I find inspirational. Would you care to discuss that here?

I have eight of them, and they all surpass each other in being charming and fun. I covet for them growing up in a country that does not torture. “My country used to torture, but we don’t do that any more”. That’s my hope, and that’s also what drives me. I spend a lot of energy in this task because of that.

Louise: Is there anything else you’d like to tell our readers at BARCAT?

Rich:  Thanks for doing this. I’m honored, and I appreciate it very much.